If you’ve suffered depression and haven’t found your way out yet, or you’ve found your way out but it still sneaks up on you, I share some strategies in this episode that may help you feel just a glimmer of something better.
(The following podcast transcript has been modified for easier readability and to benefit the Deaf and hard of hearing)
I’m going to tell you about a person that wrote to me a couple of years back. She said that she was diagnosed with depression and generalized anxiety. It started as early as she can remember it. She said it might have been in college, and she didn’t see the pattern of depression for many years.
When she finally sought professional help, the psychiatrist showed her her records and notice that she was in every May for the past seven years with symptoms of depression. That’s telling, isn’t it?
When you go to therapy around the same time every year, that could tell you something. That could tell you that maybe something happened around this time at one time in your life where you can look back and say “Wait, this is probably what is causing my depression, or at least a part of it.”
She wrote this to me in her email. I won’t get into the details of the email right now but she did say at the end of the email that she’s so happy she made a change. Her career was in jeopardy or something like that
so she said she reached a turning point when she decided to make a change.
She decided to follow professional advice, seek wisdom from others, and give herself permission to be happy and help others.
She said she started to feel the weight of depression this last May, but realized that she had nothing to tie it to, so she allowed it to go through her. She said “to flow through and out of me, reminding myself, it’s just a physical response.”
I kept that email for a couple of years and I wrote back to her and asked her “How are things going? Are you still on a good path
She said “I’m doing so well at the moment. The depression I used to experience is a distant memory. I do believe it was tied to the circumstances. I remember about eight months ago slipping toward that, but I reached out to a family member who spoke some wise words and redirected my thinking. I also landed a good job, and I love what I do. I also revisited my Christian faith through an amazing daily Bible podcast. Overall, I’m pretty healthy. So that’s my update. I hope you are doing well. Thanks for following up and keep up the life-changing work. You’re truly an inspiration.
I didn’t respond to her through email, I decided to reply to her on the air (I’ll tell her about this episode and thank her for writing this).
This is a great reminder that when we go through a depressive episode or we’re in depression, that not all depression is the same first of all. I understand that. I’m not going to invalidate or minimize anyone’s depression, but not all depression is the same.
I had pretty moderate depression myself after my long term relationship ended back in 2005 or so. I had it for a couple of years and quite frankly, I didn’t care about life. I didn’t care about living. The things that used to make me happy didn’t anymore. The things that used to make me sad, didn’t anymore.
The things that used to give me passion made me feel apathetic. My view of depression is it’s completely devoid of emotion. If you don’t have emotion, you don’t have much of a human experience at all. It doesn’t feel good. Doesn’t feel bad, though someone else might call it bad but when I was in it, I just didn’t care.
I didn’t care about getting up. I didn’t care about work. I didn’t care about any purpose that I had or was moving toward in my life. I didn’t care about the journey and didn’t care about the challenges. I didn’t care about anything, really.
For me, a lot of it was tied to childhood. Growing up in a dysfunctional home an alcoholic home, I had to learn coping mechanisms and survival skills to help me get through life.
When you’re always living life by trying to survive it’s not much of a life! It just doesn’t feel rewarding. After my long-term relationship was starting to fail, actually two years before my relationship ended (before she left), I was getting the onset of depression.
That, for me, came in the form of becoming more analytical and less emotionally responsive. My girlfriend at the time would say something and I would just look at it analytically. I was the Vulcan on Star Trek. Issues that I faced were just things to be analyzed. Doing that more and more caused me to stray away from my emotional responses because I didn’t want to feel those emotions.
If you’ve heard this show before, you know that I define depression as the suppression of thought, that leads to the repression of emotion that leads to depression.
This can happen almost simultaneously. I’m not saying that one has to happen in sequence with the other. Sometimes it just happens. Sometimes you want to say something but you don’t. So you feel it, but then you stuff it down.
What do you end up with? All these repressed emotions inside your body that start to minimize your emotional responses. You’ll end up with a lack of emotion. At least that’s how it was for me.
Depression is different for different people. I’ve seen the suppression of thought and repression of emotion lead to depression a lot. If it’s not chemical, it’s probably emotional. This is why I mentioned her first email, this person who wrote, where she said “Every May, I felt depressed.”
What happened in May, a long time ago, that caused you to feel depressed? That’s one question she could ask herself to take a step toward figuring out what this is associated with and what it’s related to.
It could be that it had to do with something that happened around May a long time ago, and it could be something else. It could be that every May something new happens. Or perhaps she gets this way in May for seemingly no reason at all. There’s usually a reason though. And if there’s not, or she can’t think of any, it’s worth looking into.
It’s worth looking into if you are experiencing depression on a regular basis. There are people that experience it daily, day and night, day and night… It’s just every day. That’s a terrible feeling. I didn’t like it.
I still wouldn’t have called it me feeling “upset” or “sad” or “angry”. Perhaps, “morose” is the closest emotion that I can come up with. No matter what, it was just devoid of any feeling.
For her, she was experiencing depression in her way. Her psychiatrist said, “You know, you experience this every May!” I don’t know if she ever put two and two together and figured out what happened around this time of the year, many years ago to help her figure that out. I think that’s a great quest for her.
She doesn’t really have to take that quest now because she’s feeling pretty good. She said it’s a distant memory. It may not be a quest that she needs to go on. In fact, I don’t even recommend going on a quest of healing unless you’re still experiencing problems.
For example, when I was slowly getting out of my depression, I felt a little bit lighter day after day. It was tiny increments, a very small percentage point per day that would go up toward a positive feeling.
Every day I would feel this little bit of sliver of positivity or happiness, but I was still depressed. But every next day, I felt a little bit better. I was still depressed, but I felt a little bit better. Then the next day and the next day… and eventually you get to the point where you’re less depressed, and you’re feeling more.
Getting better typically does involve an event of some sort. This is what I’ve noticed with depression with my clients and with myself. I’ve noticed that an event of some sort typically has to happen. It could even be just a thought event in your mind. That thought could be the event that changes everything.
Just like this person said. She had this depression starting to creep up, she could feel the symptoms were very similar or the same as before, and she asked herself, “Okay, what’s this associated to? What is this related to?” And she couldn’t line it up. She couldn’t connect it. So she just allowed it to flow through and out of her, reminding herself that it was just a physical response.
It’s an interesting perspective: Depression being a physical response. Let me try that on right now… being depressed, being a physical response… I don’t like that feeling. It certainly feels very gray inside of me.
My depression used to be a black room and there was no light. It was… depressing! It was just a place that didn’t invite any positivity whatsoever. It just didn’t feel good, it was blah. So I sat in that room a lot, but at least I was able to connect with something.
I think that’s important to connect with something during depression, during any bad feelings, or if you’re just feeling blah for the day. Connect with it, visualize what it’s like. Maybe even personify it. Make depression something that you can talk to, “Hey, what’s going on? What’s going on down there? What are you about? Why are you here?”
If I were to ask my old depression, “Why are you here?” I’m trying that right now in real-time. I’m actually feeling emotional about it. I’m having some sort of reaction to it. So, something’s there for sure. That doesn’t mean it’s still there, present today. It just means there’s some part of me that can connect with that question: Why are you there?
“Why were you there?” could be the question. “Why were you there at that time of my life?”
I might have answers like, “My girlfriend broke up with me but you were in there before that though!” (It’s a conversation I’ll have with myself, or at least that part of me). “You were there before my girlfriend broke up with me. So where did you come from?”
That’s another question you can ask your personified depression: “Where did you come from?”
Again, I’m doing this in real-time: “I think about when I was younger. I’m thinking about how my mom was always so positive yet, we were so miserable. She was miserable! She hated my stepfather. So why am I depressed about that?”
I’m having some thoughts come up with this process. “I’m thinking my mom really taught us through her actions to accept abusive behavior. She taught us not to talk back. She taught us not to stand up for ourselves. She taught us not to be confrontational. She taught, at least me, to always be the neutralizer, to always try to keep balance in the chaos. So I became very good at that yet, I spent most of my life not facing challenges. I spent most of my life really hating challenges. I didn’t like school. I didn’t like confronting people. I didn’t like telling people the truth. In fact, I don’t know if I was me for most of my life.”
Again, I’m trying this on in real-time and I’m thinking about all this stuff that I learned in childhood from someone who had all the right intentions. She was honestly trying her best. I certainly don’t blame her because she was in a tough situation as well. But I did learn from her. And so did my siblings. My brothers and sisters learned how to respond to people and challenges because of her response to the dangerous person in the house.
We took a lot of these survival skills with us and brought them into our adult relationships. The problem with that is that we didn’t have any resourceful skills to counter those survival skills. All we had were survival skills! We had to learn some countering skills, or we had to learn to really emphasize the positives instead of focusing on the negatives.
If you were depressed in the past or you’re depressed now and you’re trying to figure out how to get out of depression, I think it’s important to ask that part of yourself, “Where did you come from? Why are you there? What is your function here?”
What you’re going to hear is that part of yourself responding, maybe with pictures, maybe with sound (perhaps someone’s voice), maybe with your own inner dialogue. Maybe you’ll remember words that you haven’t thought about in a long time, or an image of somebody that you haven’t thought about in a long time.
Maybe when depression comes up for you or just that blah feeling, you can start to connect the dots and figure out what the origin of that feeling is. I understand there are blah days. You can have one or two days that can come and you just feel tired, or you don’t want to do anything.
I think that’s normal. I think our body needs a reset or a break every now and then. The thing is if it doesn’t get the reset and you’re in a constant “down” state, and you just don’t feel very good and you can’t find happiness or peace within yourself then I think it’s time to explore it. When you explore it in the way of asking yourself questions like that, it can help.
I’ve been out of depression for probably about 13 years. And it’s interesting what happens when you’ve had depression. She mentioned this in her email. She said that “It sure seems like depression could come up if I let it.”
This is important to remember. Sometimes we have things that, even though we’ve healed, if our defenses are down, if we’re exhausted, if we didn’t get enough sleep, or if we are just overwhelmed, some of this stuff can sneak back up. When it does, we just have to be a good personal guard for ourselves.
We need to jump into that guard mode and tell that stuff, “Wait! You are not coming back. No, no, no, I’m not going to do this now. I have dealt with you. I have healed from you.” And even if you haven’t healed from it, it’s still important to let whatever it is know who’s in control: “I’m in control here. You can’t do this. Not now.”
It doesn’t mean you deny it. I definitely don’t want you to deny that it’s there. If there’s something to work on, this is what we’re talking about, we want to allow it to come up. It would be great if this person who wrote gave us the exact steps like: “Okay, this is exactly how I let it flow through me. These are the specific steps that everyone can take.” But I think that’s going to be different for everyone.
For me, the impetus for getting out of depression was having a breakdown. It was finally admitting how much I hated my stepfather and finally crying so many tears that I’ve held on for so many years. That’s hard to do when you’re depressed. It really is. It’s hard to get into that state of tears coming out of your eyes and actually feeling emotion when you’ve been depressed for a period of time.
To be clear, I’m not comparing depression to being in a “blah” state. Some people listening aren’t depressed and some just feel blah which isn’t necessarily depression. So give yourself some leniency because you might just have the blahs. Or, you could have depression so I want to make sure I talk about both.
When you’re in either depressed or in that blah state, explore it. Allow it to come up, visualize what it could be. Are there any sounds associated with this depression or at least where it came from? When I think about my depression, the first person that comes up is my mom. That’s surprising because my mom was a positive force in my life! She is a wonderful person. She gave me my positive attitude. She gave me my humor (well, my dad did too). My mom gave me a lot of good things so why would I think about her when it comes to depression? Why would she come up if she was so positive in my life? Why wouldn’t my stepfather come up?
My stepfather was a huge challenge for me and my entire family but when I think about my depression, I think about my Mom, why is that? Often what we think our depression or our blah state is, isn’t often what it really is.
I’ve heard from many abuse victims that don’t necessarily blame the abuser, but they blame the person who didn’t protect them. Blame is not really the right word but when they think about where they are today, mentally and emotionally, and maybe who they’re upset at, it’s hard for them to admit that they’re upset at either another victim of the abuse (like one of their parents is a victim of that abuse as well), or it could be someone who didn’t step in and protect you.
That happens. That be in there too (I’m thinking about myself again), I think that might be in there even though I have never considered that I’ve never considered my mom to be the one to protect me because I knew she couldn’t protect herself, let alone us kids.
However, she was a buffer in a way that she calmed him down so that he wouldn’t take it out on us. She had an interesting way of being diplomatic. She was able to calm him down, put them in a calmer state, so that he wasn’t abusive toward us. When I think about that, I feel so grateful. I feel so grateful she had that magic touch.
So that depression is rolling around inside me. It’s somewhere deep down. It doesn’t really show its face but I know it’s in there. I can tell that if I let my guard down and let depression happen, it would happen. I haven’t felt it in many, many years but I know I could let it happen if I wasn’t careful. So I have to be diligent and be my own personal guard.
I literally say this, “Oh, no. No way! You are never coming back into my life. I don’t want you in my life.”
That doesn’t mean I invalidate what’s there. It just means I don’t want that feeling. I don’t want that feeling – it’s not coming back. That part of me is still a part of me! I don’t want to invalidate it. I don’t want to make it feel any less equal than it is to me. It’s a part of me, sort of like an alter ego (but not really). Just like everything you’ve experienced in your life is a part of you.
I believe it’s important to come to an acceptance of all the parts of you. Not that you’re a multiple personality or dissociative disorder, whatever it is… It’s not that. It’s just that sometimes we think in certain perceptions.
You might think one day that you’re pretty smart. Then the next day you think you’re pretty dumb. When that happens, those are two parts of you that really are probably all you and they’re not really a “part” of you.
I think it can help to treat some things that happen as a part of you so that you can talk to it, so that you can be connected to it. I think about that part of me that was depressed. If I ever have the feelings of depression or the blahs come up, I will stop what I’m doing because I need to connect with it.
That’s the first step I think. It’s to stop what you’re doing and connect with it. Sometimes it’ll be hard. Sometimes you’ll be in the middle of something but make time later if you’re in the middle of something because it’s important that you catch it while it’s happening. Or at least as close as you can because what is depression? It’s something we repress. And if we’re in the middle of something, guess what we’re going to do with it? We’re going to repress it! We’re going to put it back. “Oh, I’m in the middle of something. I’ll just deal with that later”. It passes but where is it later? Later we might not be able to connect to it.
It is helpful to try to catch it in the moment, “I’m in the middle of something, but you know what? I’m going to take a break. I’m going to go to the bathroom and connect with it there.” Or where and when it’s convenient for you. Tell yourself you’re going to catch it, you’re going to notice it, then you’re going to ask it questions:
Hey, what’s going on?
Where did you come from?
What are you doing here?
Why are you coming up now?
Again, this is something that if you’re not dealing with it all the time, and it just comes up on occasion, you can ask it those questions. Ask them in a nice way, almost like it’s a small child. Almost as if it’s somebody you really care about or love. Really connect with it. Really be that comforting voice that maybe you needed as a child. That can be a big step toward getting through this or having it flow through you. Or just recognizing it, because maybe it’s not ready to be resolved yet. Maybe it still needs to be in there.
A next step (and I’m not really making these in sequential order, I’m just coming up with them as we go here) could be to ask yourself if there’s an event in your past that could have caused this. You may come up with something right away. Or it may take a little while. Maybe you’ve experienced it all your life.
For the person who wrote the email, What happened a long time ago around May? What’s the first thing that comes up? There’s usually something to do with the first thing you think of. I don’t care how benign that first thought is, you can usually relate it or associate it to something that you went through.
You might think of something like, “Oh, I remember when my brother slammed my hand in the car door and he didn’t care. He laughed…” or something like that. A memory you haven’t thought about in years. In that example, maybe you thought that event never affected you, but you carried it with you and perhaps it turned into depression.
Like with my mom. I never would have thought my mom had anything to do with my depression. “It had to be my stepfather.”
So I might have had this false belief that I’ve carried around with me a long time saying, “Well, if it wasn’t for that jerk, I wouldn’t be depressed. If it wasn’t for him drinking, I wouldn’t have this problem with other people drinking. If it wasn’t for his behavior, I wouldn’t have this depression today.”
I could blame it on all of that but maybe I learned how to be depressed by repressing what I really felt all my life, which I learned from my mom. So my mom could have inadvertently caused this, but I don’t blame her. She’s not responsible for it. I’m responsible for dealing with it now. But what would happen if you allowed a thought of someone who had no ill intention toward you, who did not try to hurt you, who did not try to put you down, who did not do any of this stuff, what would happen if you just allowed the thought of that person be the cause of something that you’re carrying around with you? Could you consider that a neutral or even supportive person might have led to your depression, or the blahs, or whatever?
What happens when you introduce that thought into your mind? That person may not be the cause of course. It’s not that they may be responsible for it or they’re to blame, it’s not that at all. It’s just how your mind processed things when you were younger. So you can look at someone that may have had nothing to do with whatever challenges you went through, and maybe even was a positive force in your life and still, they may have inadvertently not given you the resources or the tools that you need to be able to process, release or deal with things appropriately in a way that is helpful to you.
People like this can come and go in our lives and have a huge impact in our lives, and hopefully, all the people in your life that were a positive impact didn’t inadvertently cause any harm. Hopefully, that’s true.
However, if you’ve been searching for an answer for whatever feeling is underlying inside of you, maybe it’s time to open the box a little bit more and get outside that box and allow some thoughts in that maybe you didn’t want to let him before. I would never have thought to allow my mom into that thought process because she did the best she could. I believe that 100%.
She did the best she could with the resources that she had in the situation that we were all in. I believe she did her best to protect all of us. So it was all saintly to me.
At the same time, my brain tells me that she had something to do with my inability to cope because she had an inability to deal with a situation in a way that might have been more helpful to her and to the family. And it’s difficult to say that without sounding like I’m blaming her for anything because I really believe she did the best she could.
Sometimes people will be in our lives and they’ll do the best they can and there’s nothing they did wrong, it was just they didn’t have the right mindset, or they didn’t have the tools themselves or those tools weren’t passed down… So there’s really nothing that they could have done differently. It’s just that now, when we’re growing up, we have to figure out how to deal with challenges that we were never taught how to deal with.
What do we do then? We have to learn them fresh. We have to learn them new. We have to face our fears! That’s one of the things I had to do is face my fear of honoring myself.
My mom never honored herself so I had this fear of honoring myself because my believe was ‘when you honor yourself, you could get yelled at. Somebody might leave me, somebody might hurt me. And if that happens, what then? No more love, no more connection, no more family.’ There are all these beliefs that we create that we believe are going to happen so we allow bad behavior in our lives because we’re not confronting our fears by confronting other people.
We’re not honoring ourselves by saying, “Hey, look, I don’t accept that behavior, so will you please back off?” We may not iterate those exact words, but if we don’t stand up for ourselves and we didn’t grow up with somebody who taught us how to stand up for ourselves, we have to learn that fresh! We have to learn that as a new skill.
This is what I’ve been talking about on the show for the last seven years. There are some things that we have to do for the first time. We have to do this for the first time, which is why I came up with the question “If there were absolutely no consequences, what would I do or say then?”
For example, I’m about to say something to someone and I ask myself the question, “If there were no consequences to what I was about to do or say, what would I do or say?”
I’ll always come up with the right answer. It will be my truth. I might want to tell someone, “You’re being disrespectful. I think you’re being a jerk. So I’d like you to please stop that behavior.”
That could be a truth that comes up for me. When I was not so prepared in the past and I didn’t have the tools and resources I needed to be able to face challenges in my life, my thought would instead be, “I can’t say anything. I don’t want to say anything. I’m too scared to say anything. If I say something, they might yell at me. They might fire me. They might hit me. I don’t know. So why risk it?”
That’s what I learned from childhood. That is what many people have learned in childhood. “Why risk it? It’s too risky.” Either we’re taught that or absorb it through our caretaker’s behaviors. We move on through life with these skill sets that may not be good enough so we have to start creating new ones.
It was scary for me. I think for many people, it is scary to be able to look at something and say, “Wow, I’ve never done that before… but I’m going to do it. I’m going to do it right now. I’m going to take that chance. I’m going to take the challenge. I’m going to confront it. I have to. If I don’t do it, whatever is happening is going to continue happening. I don’t want that in my life.”
I want to thank the person who wrote this email and for letting me know how well things are going for her. She said her son gave her words of wisdom, and I started to talk about perceptions and how your perception of what’s happening can go through a lot of changes because sometimes we carry around the same perception year after year.
I carried around the perception that my stepfather was a dangerous man (to me). He was dangerous to other people as well, but personally, I believed was dangerous to me. I believe if I ever defied him, it would be bad. It would be very bad news.
Yet, I never defined what “danger” was. I never really defined how bad it could be and what that meant. I never figured out exactly what behaviors would he do that would make it bad for me. I just made up in my mind that he was a bad, dangerous man.
I kept that belief for many years, right up into my 40s when I finally had to confront him and say, “Sorry, you can’t come in this house. My mom doesn’t want to see you.” That was very hard to do. It was the very first time I stood up to him, but I had to do it the first time.
I told that story before that’s why I’m not expanding on it now but he showed up at the door at my mom’s house and he wasn’t invited. I said, “Sorry, you can’t come in. You’re not allowed here.” Or something like that. And he just shrugged his shoulders and walked away and I thought, “What the heck just happened?”
I really thought he was going to hit me. He didn’t show any signs of hitting me. He showed no signs of anything dangerous at all.
I was afraid of this jerk for the last 40 years of my life?
When I was a child, yes, he was very dangerous but now that I’m an adult and can take care of myself, yet there I was confronting him like I was a scared little boy.
I told myself “I don’t want to be that scared little boy anymore. I don’t want to carry that around with me.” I talked to that part of me as an adult to the inner child, “Hey I’ll take care of this. I got this.”
That’s what I would tell that inner child inside me: I got this. Don’t worry, I’ll take care of this. And I did. At that moment, I stood up for myself for the first time ever with this guy that I was afraid of all my life.
That moment changed me. It was a pivotal event in my life. I didn’t have to repress anything. That’s what happens! We have these moments, these challenges that come up that we can either express or repress.
I chose to express. And that changed everything.
Coming back to depression, if you really want to stay out of that, start expressing yourself. That doesn’t mean you express yourself with the most dangerous people in the world. You do have to pick your battles wisely. You do have to realize when there are people that you have to avoid because some people are dangerous so we don’t want to express ourselves too much with them.
But we do want to express ourselves in other ways. We want to stand up for ourselves. We want to make sure that we are not letting other people get under our skin. And if they are, and if we can’t handle it, we have to get away from them. Or we have to tell them to stop: “You’re starting to get into my skin. You’re disrespecting me and I don’t like it. So, could you please stop?”
If they say no, then you know where you stand in their eyes. If they don’t mind making you upset, and they don’t mind causing you emotional harm like that, then they may not be the best people to be around. You might have to do something about that. Or you might have to stand up even firmer.
Again, you have to choose your battles wisely. I do know that when I started standing up for myself, when I started honoring myself, my life changed. I was so much farther from depression than I ever was in that moment, because I can look back at that right now and say, “Damn, I’m proud of myself for doing that.” And I can also feel that little boy that comes up and says, “I hope it never happens again. I hope I never have to face that situation again.”
But if I do, if he comes back into my life, if he is around when I go visit family, then I’m going to be the personal guard I was then and be the protector I need to be for me and anyone I love. I did it the first time. I proved to myself that I could get through it and I lived to tell about it. And I never, ever want to feel that depressed feeling again.
What do you do to avoid depression? You have to do the things opposite that you used to do that would normally make you feel depressed. If you used to hold back and not tell anyone how you felt, maybe it’s time to do the opposite.
If you always let people walk all over you, maybe it’s time to do the opposite of that. I’m not saying you walk over others. I’m just saying you make sure people don’t walk all over you. You might have to do that.
Whatever caused the depression to happen, if you start doing the opposite, it usually starts to reverse it. I know this is complex. I know some people need medications. I know some of its chemical. I’m just giving you one path, one door to walk through if you choose to do so. If it helps you. It’s worth trying.
The last step, if I may call it that, is that as you start seeing a glimmer of positivity in your life, don’t beat yourself up if that glimmer doesn’t stay. I had to go through that. A lot of people that start getting out of depression have to go through that. When you start to see something positive, you end up back to the negative, or void, whatever you want to call it, or depressed, devoid of emotions. When you get that glimmer of positivity, and you go back to depressed, be grateful for that glimmer.
Just tell yourself, “Hey that’s starting to come back. The positivity is starting to come back, this is good!”
Then if you’re feeling depressed a lot, and it comes back again, notice it, be grateful for it. And yeah, you might have to deal with some more depression or more apathy, whatever it is for you but notice how it was there and it can come back and just acknowledge it.
Talk to that part of you. Any part that comes up just say, “Hey, who are you? What’s going on? How are you today? What’s your function here? What’s your purpose?”
I’m simplifying it a little bit now, but you get what I mean. I want to thank you for joining me today. I hope this has been helpful. I don’t talk about depression too much. I do have an episode on depression that I made several years ago. I think it might be helpful to you if you’re experiencing depression, or bouts of it.
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